Karen Finley reading a sext as part of her “Sext Me If You Can” project at the New Museum (image via the New Museum’s
Facebook page)
Of the four artists known by history as the
NEA Four,
Karen Finley is the one whose full name many people remember, even if
they know little else about the situation that led to the artists’
lawsuit against the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA). It’s easy to
speculate about why Finley’s name is more remembered than the others —
it could have to do with the fact that the lawsuit bore only her name (
National Endowment for the Arts v. Finley); that she
posed for Playboy,
a move that garnered quite a bit of media attention, not long after the
Supreme Court ruled against the artists’ challenge of the “decency
clause” that allowed their grants to be vetoed; that American society,
still grappling with the AIDS epidemic and entrenched homophobia, was
more comfortable making her the face of the case instead of John Fleck,
Holly Hughes, and Tim Miller, because of her heterosexuality and
traditional beauty. It could be all of those things, or it could be
other things; it’s impossible to track it down precisely.
Regardless
of the reasons for it, that extra limelight appears to have had a major
influence on Finley’s work, particularly in the last decade. Between
2000 and 2010 she created a number of performance works that took on the
issues of celebrity and public scandal, borrowing from the mediated
lives of such women as Liza Minnelli, Laura Bush, Terri Schiavo, Silda
Spitzer, Martha Stewart, and Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis. Many of the
texts of these performances were published in the aptly titled book
The Reality Shows.
That
title seems particularly fitting because there’s something about Finley
and her work that touches on the ways in which young reality television
stars today, specifically women, become briefly famous for heavily
sexualized moments of notoriety and then have to navigate and negotiate
their relationship to that notoriety for years after, while also
leveraging it as a way to maintain a public presence. Finley is
obviously in a very different position than those women, operating
within the art world, not having consciously entered into the NEA Four
scandal, and sometimes making work that specifically resists
sexualization; but there’s something about her movements through the
arts and popular media, as well as her evocation of subjects like Silda
Spitzer and Martha Stewart, that speaks to a larger conversation about
the limits of female celebrity, the ways in which notoriety and sexual
scandal impact women in particular, and the consistency of public
expectations and assumptions once a woman has been marked by scandal.
Like
the other members of the NEA Four, Finley is a highly individual artist
whose work prior to and following the lawsuit has taken its own
idiosyncratic path, despite the symbolic status the group was reduced to
in the 1990s. Known primarily as a performance artist, she situates
herself firmly within the visual arts and considers herself to be
working in a conceptual vein, choosing her medium based on the demands
of the ideas she’s developing — anything from performance, writing, or
painting to public sculpture or installation. One week before her work
Sext Me If You Can opened
at the New Museum, I chatted with her by phone to learn about the new
piece, and also to reflect back on her career more broadly as part of my
ongoing series of interviews with the NEA Four artists during their
residency at the New Museum.
Given the subject matter of her work, public perceptions of her and her
art, and all the ways that sexuality remains a deeply fraught subject
in the US, our conversation wasn’t always an easy banter. But it was
interesting, and it highlights the fact that simple boundaries can’t be
drawn around artists or their work.
* * *
A poster from Finley’s 2007 show “WAKE UP!”
Alexis Clements: I want to start with the project you’re doing for the New Museum, “Sext Me If You Can,”
which involves collectors purchasing the opportunity to send you a
sext, which you will then receive and use as inspiration for a painting
that you’ll create during live “studio” hours at the New Museum, with
the paintings going back to the collectors who sent the sexts. Can you
talk a bit about what led you to create this work?
Karen Finley:
I like to look and see what’s going on in society, what’s in the
culture, and I was really taken by how people get so bent out of shape
with sexting. You know, let’s say with
[Anthony] Weiner,
people were acting as if it was World War III. The person is supposed
to be made to feel guilty. I was thinking about the body, in terms of
life drawing, and so instead of demonizing, I kind of have this sense
that you’re looking at the figure, posing the figure and drawing the
figure. It’s like a playfulness — trying to take away the taboo, the
guilt and shame.
AC: One of the things I think of when I hear about sexting is the fear around the mistaken delivery.
KF:
I think there’s a fear of being caught. Isn’t that something, too —
being found out with sexuality? And so I think that’s what this is
supposed to be allowing. That shame and fear and criminality — I want to
expose that. In some ways, we’re supposed to be so much more open
[today], but I think that some of the issues still pertain as if it was
the 1950s.
AC: Another aspect to the work that
I’m curious about is the involvement of both the collector and the
public. The public will be able to watch you working in the temporary
studio that will be set up at the museum. But there’s also a
transactional nature to this, because a collector purchases the work and
purchases the opportunity to send the inspiration for the work to you,
in the form of a sext. I’m wondering about that choice to make it both
public and transactional.
KF: I think it’s layered, and
I think that what the artist does is to subvert a thinking, to offer a
different perspective. I feel that this dynamic I’ve created kind of
opens up a new discussion or awareness about this societal trend that’s
very private but that’s part of our technology — it’s a way of relating.
Not everyone is always going to be sending me texts; they’re going to
really range. But you’re going to actually watch me watching, and I
think that is fascinating — to see the woman watching. Because in terms
of the male gaze, traditionally, it’s more of the female nude that is
going to have her presence in the museum rather than the male. I’m
interested also in demystifying it — the intimacy and the transmission
of it within technology. Looking at them, gazing — that’s very intimate,
but isn’t that what art making is about? You’re looking at the model,
but it’s being sent, and I’m interpreting it. That’s what many artists
have been trained to do, since the caves of
Lascaux. And then the idea of acquiring it — for people to really value what they’re making, to have the sense that it’s an artwork.
Two of Finley’s sext paintings (image via the New Museum’s
Facebook page)
AC:
Because in our culture, as you’re pointing out, sexting is so often
seen as transgressive or private or something that one needs to be
furtive about, I’m also interested in the idea that the collectors are
purchasing the opportunity to do this publicly, to send a prominent
artist some sort of sexual imagery or sexual words. It makes me think
about other artists who are making work about the relationship between
artistic labor, sex, and the marketplace. One of the first pieces that
comes to mind is Andrea Fraser’s “Untitled”
(2003). I know that you’ve offered critiques of the art market in other
pieces you’ve done in the past, so I wonder if this is also, in some
way, challenging the relationship between sex and the marketplace and
the role of the artist?
KF: I’m thinking about Mr. Weiner’s sext. If he had printed those and put his name under it and had titled it,
Here’s My Junk,
and he did an edition of ten, within different contexts, you can see it
in different ways. I was interested in the private and public. But in
terms of the history, I think it is important to be looking at artists
that have challenged sexual norms or dynamics. So yes, you can think
about it that way. Another piece that you could be thinking of is
Vito Acconci’s “Seedbed,” or
Carolee Schneeman’s “Interior Scroll,” Annie Sprinkle’s work.
But I also actually think of it in terms of looking at
[Henri de Toulouse]-Lautrec and
drawing at that time — that was considered to be very radical, when he
was painting the dance-hall women in Paris. I’m also thinking more of
Egon Schiele, whose work was highly erotic and sexualized. I feel that I’m playing within life drawing.
AC: One other aspect of sexting and the transmission of sexual images over devices, especially given recent news headlines and
picking up on some of your past work that has touched on sexual
violence and the exploitation of women, is incidents like the Steubenville rape case.
Rather than mistaken delivery, there are so many instances these days
of the exploitative delivery of sexual images over technology —
particularly instances where a young person sends a sext to their
partner and that partner exploits the image, sending it on to other
people. There have been a few prominent cases
like this in the past year, focused on young women who have been
bullied for images that they originally intended to be private or were
coerced into taking. Which makes it hard for me to think about sexting
and not also think about the fact that, right now in particular, the
public taboo is tied up in these experiences of young people being
exploited, in part, through the use of technology.
KF:
It’s always fascinating to me that artists, when they’re doing one work,
immediately, it’s the worst-case scenario. You know, I can’t answer all
the questions in the world.
AC: I’m not implying that you’re involved in that …
KF: I
know, I’m not saying you’re saying that. But at the same time, I would
like to bring up, as an artist who’s been doing work and been
interviewed many times, that the artist is supposed to bring an
awareness. This isn’t a class-action suit; this isn’t a legal case; this
isn’t lobbying; this isn’t for Planned Parenthood; this isn’t for NOW —
this is an artwork. And yes, it’s complicated and it’s complex and
there’s going to be contradictory levels to it. I am one person with one
artwork here. I just don’t know — how am I supposed to answer that?
That’s horrible that that happened.
AC: You’ve
written a lot about experiences of sexuality, but also about trauma, and
I think it’s all in the pot. That’s what I’m trying to get at.
A publicity shot from Finley’s 2000 show “Shut Up and Love Me” (photo by Donna Ann McAdams)
KF:
Yeah, my work does have that. I’ve also done work about young women. In
this particular work, though, this is what I’m dealing with. But I’m
also dealing with that, too. Some people will feel uncomfortable. It
exposes that. But isn’t that the complication of creating art — all the
different aspects? It’s probably something that I’ll either be accused
of or that I’m not thinking about. If it brings that up or if someone
feels exploited, they don’t have to necessarily participate.
AC: To build on a separate thread, you did an interview almost two years ago about The Reality Shows
book, and you briefly brought up the complicated relationship between
your public identity and you as a human being and an artist. You were
talking about the experience of 9/11 being very traumatic for you, and
you felt that speaking as Karen Finley, the public persona, wasn’t as
useful at that point for tackling the subjects you wanted to tackle. So
you adopted these other characters, built performances using these other
public personas. There’s something interesting to me there about the
connection between trauma and disembodiment, and it seems like the
characters you chose for those Reality Shows
performances — Terri
Schiavo, Martha Stewart, Silda Spitzer, and Jackie O, among others —
those women have that experience of being disembodied very publicly, of
being turned into political symbols and media figures rather than being
allowed to be fully human. I just wanted to talk a little bit about
that, because I think it’s fascinating, from a feminist angle. Also in
the context of the NEA Four thing, in which the four of you were reduced
to symbols, and your individuality was taken away a bit.
KF:
Yeah, you know, you lose your privacy. But I think that happens with
all public figures. I think there’s a sense that there was already a
kind of iconic understanding of who I was, and an expectation. And that
expectation would usually disappoint because that version of what Karen
Finley was didn’t exist anyway, because everyone was just reading or
imagining. So yes, in some ways, when I was performing, my image got in
the way. That was a way I kind of negotiated that.
AC:
That gets at something else that intrigues me about your work — that
tension around the fact that the four of you were all symbolically
associated with “perversion” and sexual deviance, or public deviance.
I’m interested in the ways your work grapples with how to negotiate
public sexuality, as well as individuality and personhood in the context
of having this highly sexualized public image. As you say, you can’t
ever really be the person people expect you to be. It seems like you’re
exploring that through a lot of your work, but I like the idea that you
did it through these other characters.
KF: I’m using or
appropriating public figures. I think society selects individuals to
then work out their — they project onto these individuals. That’s what
I’m interested in. I’m just using a process that’s been used for
probably thousands of years. Shakespeare, when he’s doing a play about
Anthony and Cleopatra, that isn’t about Anthony and Cleopatra, it’s
about other issues about human nature. And that’s what I do. That’s
what I’m trying to look at. Everyone has a familiarity with the
archetypes of these known figures, and that’s what I was doing.
Now
what I’m interested in are actually scenarios that happen in
communities — events that happen to the common person, and then they are
put into the limelight.
AC: Can you give me an example?
KF:
There was a woman who was on a plane singing different versions of a
Whitney Houston song over and over and over again until they had to land
the plane and have her removed, because people couldn’t stand it.
That’s what I’m thinking about. A person who is an everyday person, just
part of a group experience, and then they deviate out of that
experience to challenge and to heighten the situation.
AC:
I’d also like to ask about the role of vulnerability in your
performance work. Specifically in light of the discussion about being a
public persona and being very clear about the fact that people have
unrealistic, or just incorrect, expectations and assumptions about who
you are. I know you don’t just do performance, but you’re present in
front of an audience in a lot of your work. What, for you, is that about
— placing yourself in a very vulnerable position as a performer?
KF:
My daughter just went skydiving today, and she put herself in this
position that’s very vulnerable, right, and exhilarating — the feat of
being able to go and do that. But I’m just going to bring a different
point of view now. When I first started performing and doing work, I
would actually get physically ill. But then at one point in my career,
it was just so difficult, with everything going on. I came to a point
where I had to sit down and talk to myself, and I thought, you know, I
want to do this for the rest of my life, and I was looking around in the
world, and I made a decision that I was going to feel the joy and the
generosity. I wanted to change and transform my pain into compassion. So
when I go and perform my work, I’m really considering it as a gesture —
being with the human race. That I’m there, that I have — whether it’s
my ability or my talent — this connection. So I’m going to participate
in the human world with my art. I look at it as an act of kindness or
generosity, and I feel the joy that I can be there and participate. I
try to bring my soul and my heart and my fingertips with the love of the
human condition. And it’s really a wonderful feeling. So I don’t feel
vulnerable at all. I feel how joyful I am in my life, that I’m able to
be here to work with the people.
AC: I wanted to
end by talking about the ways in which you seem to have been able to
move across different areas of the arts over the course of your career.
My understanding is that you started your artistic career, in part, in
the punk scene in the San Francisco Bay Area, and then moved from there
into gallery settings and pursued performance work. It seems like you’ve
taken in a wide spectrum of the arts: you’ve been in punk clubs, I saw “The Jackie Look” in a cabaret space here in New York, this work at the New Museum isn’t the first time you’ve been in a museum setting.
KF:
I grew up in the Chicago area, and I’ve been doing, if you want to call
it, performative conceptual work since I was in high school. And then I
moved to go to the San Francisco Art Institute, and one way that I paid
for myself to go to college was that I worked as a cocktail waitress in
a strip club. Then there was this kind of mixture of the music scene
and the art scene. Many of the musicians — new wave or punk — were going
to art school as well. You would have that interplay of who can be an
artist, who can be a musician, and performance was supposed to be a way
to subvert or destabilize economic dynamics or the market — the gallery
system and collectors. And so that’s also what “Sext Me If You Can” is
doing. The prices are pretty low — they’re not $5, but it deals with
marketplace, it looks at who is the artist, who is going, and who is
acquiring.
I like to play with those kinds of things, and that was
part of the original impetus, part of what was coming out of
post–Vietnam War and earlier performance — challenging the object, that
only those with wealth were able to have art. So that’s what ["Sext Me
If You Can"] is supposed to be doing, too. It’s supposed to sort of
destabilize that. And you know, it is about sex, but I think, more so,
it’s about the transmission of images and drawing images, and for people
to really look at what they do have. It is an art. There is a
communication, there is a value, and we kind of just look at these
images and we don’t spend time with them. I’m going to be spending time
with these images. Isn’t that what we try to do in a museum? We really
try to look and spend some time with an image. If we can spend more
time, to think about them and to connect with images, that’s what part
of art criticism and theory and vi